The Question Of Adam The First


Was Christ the Second Adam, or was Adam the First Christ?

I’m no scholar, but I am familiar with the scientific view of evolution and The Big Bang theory. In part of my mind, God’s mind and body equals the Universe as we know it. Matter and Energy = Dust and Spirit. That would make me a pantheist, except that I also like the arguments for panentheism, with God outside the box as well as in it. Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

In His image – His likeness – we look like Him – He must look like us. So God is, was, and always has been a being who exists in the realm of Time, just as we find ourselves. For some pantheist, God was not completely consciousness of Himself in His beginnings. Therefore He/Her/It created beings, or creatures (by chance or happy accident) who would eventually evolve an awareness of themselves as separate entities, and they would come to realize two facts: their own mortality, and this realization – they didn’t create Reality themselves.

I’m guessing here, but in Uncle Tree’s symbolic point of view,

Adam was the first human being to evolve conscious awareness.

As a panentheist, I could propose that God used a little bitty part of Himself to create a reality that was separate from Himself. Again, this could have been a happy accident, or a wonderful fault. A godly “Woops!” A bang, what have you. Perhaps, He doubted His own existence. Why? He had no way to prove it. Turmoil-Chaos-Bang! Now God, conscious of Himself in this case, realized what He had done, and gained a positive reaction. Good came into being as a concept. His first creation was Good – in His Mind and thoughts, and from His image.

Then like a child (if this was His first experience at creating something other than Himself from His own very Self), He started playing with this Reality that thickened as it cooled. Eventually, he formed a figure that He thought was representative of Himself – and called it Adam. Adam needed a Life, so God dreamed up a reality in which Adam could exist and play and create just as He had done. He came up with a Divine Plan, but the only way it would work was if He poured out more of Himself, and then ordered this new Reality to conform to specific laws that only He could break. You know, just in case He made a mistake and had to fix a thing or two via Divine Intervention. I’m just saying…

God was aware that He had a past, a present, and a future, as would this new Reality. God had to conform to the rule of Time. God needed the help of Time and Distance to cool off this reality of His. He didn’t know He was so hot. God learned to control this fire, and then He knew His power. Perhaps, in imitation of God, Adam (now conscious of himself, the world, and his Creator), took it upon himself to challenge The Unknown. Uncle Tree likes to think that Adam was the first human being to control fire on this material planet, our home in the heavens, and as of January 1, 2012 – the only home we know of that houses people like you, and trees like me. What do you think? Am I way beyond the forest here? I wood appreciate your thoughts, my friends. In the meanwhile, I thank you ahead of Time! Romans 11:36

For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things:

to whom be glory forever! Amen.


Hanging with the Prince Of Peace, I am.
Uncle Tree


Painting: Ancient Of Days, William Blake, 1757-1827



56 thoughts on “The Question Of Adam The First

  1. My response is related to the subtitle “Was Christ the Second Adam, or was Adam the First Christ?” There is no mention in the Bible that Adam played any leading role after He sinned and was kicked out of the garden of Eden. Hence, he could not have been the first Christ

  2. I certainly think Christ superimposes….it was a little hazy in Eden’s Garden! We soon found out that unripe fruit goes straight through!

  3. Human consciousness seems to expand exponentially in all possible ways and an interpreted *Big Bang* proceeds? Redemption seems to be well underway. We crawled on our bellies in a sinuous way, tempting Eve within reptilian brain reaction. Damn it, that part of our histories was almost a wipe-out but we survived, the spiritual echo of which proving fearfully overwhelming. But it is Life’s eternal nature, God’s Nature that we are here to realise and that brings us to Resurrection……what a super imposition….thank Christ, now we know…let’s Go, with God…. make straight the Way.

  4. Very interesting uncle Tree. I agreed with pretty much everything except the subtitle I noted. God bless. I am looking forward to reading more thought provoking posts in the future.

  5. Hi Keith

    Just a few thou-ghts?

    Let us have a relatively quick look at what the Bible has to say about the connection between Adam and Jesus Christ.

    Universal laws were in force long before Moses and long before Adam. This must be the case as there is no sin without Law – Romans 5:13. For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    From John 1:1- 3, it is revealed that it was the Word (Logos) who actually did the creating (with a little help), not the Father. The Word was, and is, a God in His own right.

    If we take a rather mundane worldly example, we could perhaps compare the creative efforts of Henry Ford, who was known for creating the first commercially produced motor car. Although He was given credit for his creative abilities it was not he personally who physically made the product, although he was at the planning stage right from the beginning.

    However, the Father and the Word are as one in thought and deed – John 10:30

    1 Corinth.15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

    v.47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

    Translation – ‘Lord’ – Strong’s G2962 – kyrios – 1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
    a) the possessor and disposer of a thing
    1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
    2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
    b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master
    c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah

    This whole chapter is well worth a study.

    Here we have just one of the many principles of duality that are revealed in the Bible.
    v.44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    It is made very clear to us in the Scriptures that the 1st Adam failed – As your symbol is a tree, then the symbolic importance of the trees mentioned in the biblical texts are already known to you and do not need repeating by me.

    1st Adam – Material and Carnal
    2nd Adam – Spiritual and Divine

    It would appear that the teacher had to take on the role of the pupil in order for the next phase of God’s Plan to take effect. There must have been some (huge) risk involved – imagine if the 2nd Adam had also failed.

    Quote: ‘’As a panentheist, I could propose that God used a little bitty part of Himself to create a reality that was separate from Himself.’’ End Quote

    It does appear that God did create us with a ‘little part of Himself ‘ – Genesis creation.
    He created angels before mankind, so perhaps we are plan B, since the angels (at least one third of them failed in their mission) sent here along with their leader not only failed in their mission but thought also to take over the very throne of God. They were ‘turned’ by their leader (probably using the same deceptive tactics and practices that are so endemic in our world) into believing that his way was the right way. Unfortunately, angels were created as spirit beings, and as such can not die. Plan B gives God an option He does not have with the angels.

    Do we have a bit of God in us? – John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

    Psalm 82:1 [[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods (‘elohiym)

    v.6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.

    Is the Universe a manifestation of God’s attributes?
    Is God greater than the Universe?
    A combination of both?

    Should we be asking this question?

    Isah. 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

    Rom. 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? 21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?



  6. Thank you for that, John! I’m going to start at the top and reply.
    I hope to get back to you tonight. If not, don’t worry. I will. You deserve one for that most benevolent and informative comment.


    Hi, Cheryl! 🙂 Ponder away! You’ll be in good company. I think
    John is saying – Adam was the first material Man purposely and
    intelligently designed by God the Father. (Outside the Garden Of Eden, he would have found the Neanderthals running amok.)
    God’s apparent mistake was in giving Adam self-conscious
    awareness, which implies he had a spirited (logos) freewill. He
    chose wrongly. No pass card. But erased from the Book Of Life?
    Where is his spirit now? He was important! God’s first! Ponder…

    God thought, “If you want something done right, do it yourself.”
    Self, in godly terms is plural. Father let His Word do the work.
    So some of God, the Father half, stayed everywhere as per
    usual, and The Word came down and impregnated Mary via
    a superimposition, like Ed states. Kept her virginity, no less.

    Jesus was born! Human body – The Word, His Spirit. Totally!!!
    Our own spirits are different somehow, but worth saving. 🙂
    Since Jesus was the second man purposely and intelligently designed
    (…uh. Can’t say that. Only The Word knows who designed Him)
    to live on earth, as a mortal, because of that,
    we can call Jesus the second Adam. I could be wrong. Yes!


    I hope you’re hanging in ‘there’, Susie! 🙂


    🙂 If something comes to you, Ianus, be sure to let us know. Ty!


    Hi there, Christopher! You see what you started here? 😉
    It’s all good! We actually care ’round here! Stay tuned now!


    Dear Noel, it’s fine to disagree and dearly hold your own truths.
    This was my thought this morning, before reading Ed’s and
    John’s replies. Adam was a spiritual being in Chapter 1, then a physical being in Chapter 2, and then at his end, a spiritual being once more, and for all time. Wasn’t he? Why isn’t Adam close
    to the Throne in Revelations? Where did he go when he died?
    Or, do Adam and Christ have the same Divine 1st begotten spirit?

  7. Dearest Ed,

    The fruit off the Tree Of Knowledge can act as a laxative in
    certain cases? We know Adam learned thus, but did Eve?
    My mom’s name is Evelyn. Ahem…and Eve’s spirit is where?

    I know what is defined as superposition, and so I found the def
    for superimposition. As I asked Cheryl, is that how Mary got…
    the Gabriel genetic super anomaly effective spermatozoa?

    God’s Nature – that’s a good guess. Well, no. Rather,
    we need to stop guessing to SEE it as Christ does, otherwise
    we won’t be super enough to impose our will on Maya – Reality.
    Darn…am I even close to understanding you, you, Brit you! 🙂
    Resurrection superpositions has me stumbling. I hope He SEES me.

  8. tree,

    I am overjoyed by your article and the great responses. This is precisely what, I think, bogging and the internet are great at spawning; free exchanging of ideas. This is great!

    As you so aptly said, “It’s all good.”


  9. Hello again, John! 🙂

    Thank you for your thorough approach to most of my questions!
    Speaking of first created beings, I left out the story-line about
    Lucifer being the first created being. He was obviously conscious
    of himself and The Father, but we don’t believe that Satan was
    made in the likeness of God because he had wings. Or do we?

    There was no law in the beginning, therefore chaos abounded.
    It wasn’t until Time allowed energy to become materialized, or
    manifested, that the Universal physical laws came into effect.
    The speed of light could have been faster during those first few
    nanoseconds. This begs the question of an infinite Universe.
    Do you believe it is, or do you think it’s a closed system with
    boundaries beyond which we know nothing whatsoever?

    I wonder what happened to Adam’s spirit, as I mentioned above.
    Or Eve’s for that matter. Wherever are they now? Today?
    Which leads me to question – what happens to our spirits
    after all is said and done? Do we sleep till the Second Coming?

    We have also left out the feminine side of this equation – Eros.
    The intellect is mostly seen as a tool, whereas Love is seen
    as driving our desires, and satisfying our earthly wishes, desires,
    and the suffering that comes along with our aches and pains.
    Where does Eros begin in The Bible? Is it even mentioned?

    We are gods, eh? As long as we only humbly use a little ‘g’.
    Fantastic! We should have the power to heal then, I believe.
    But not a single person on Earth can prove this power. Seems
    like the only power we have is the power that keeps us from
    desiring a throne of power. Frodo ditched the Ring. Hmmm…

    Before we’re through, I dearly hope to find some answers that
    satisfy my human curiosity. I know I’ll need help. I appreciate
    how much help you’ve offered already. I hope you know that.

    Peace to you today, my faraway and far-out friend. 🙂 Keith
    I now see you have a couple new posts up. As soon as I can,
    I’ll get over there and see what you have to teach me.

  10. Uncle Tree, I hope He SUES you 😉 The super imposition is on me!
    (another way of saying we already have and have had all we need) Jesus saw it that way and tells us to get on with it……”the things I do, you can do and even greater things.” Now, if one ‘prefers’ the ‘ scenario death threat, hang in there adrenaline rush etc.’ of the animal kingdom and its goodies/baddies, one will deny the Christ in one and hope to Christ that he doesn’t come back…..this, all before one will see Him coming back through the Veil as a Super Dooper Imposition! Laxatives will not be needed 😉

  11. We Brits also say ‘super’ when we are well pleased, but not normally with an imposition, which in above nut-case is a relative term to a primate! Yay, Jesus was ever and timelessly in God’s mind…..

  12. Dear Uncle Tree

    Doesn’t scripture state that “That which Is, was, and always will be?”
    To me, that means there is zero degrees of separation between
    creator and created. The Source of Life and form is greater than
    its manifestations but not different from.

    I’m deep in the woods on this subject and may be full of it and in need one of ed’s laxatives, but it seems irrelevant to try to determine which was first, second or last if what Is was and always will be. Trying to do so imposes our concept of time and reality on the Ultimate Reality.

    I do agree that Creation is an ongoing process as is the expansion of consciousness. Science has shown that the universe has no center and is continually expanding equally and simultaneously from every point. Not sure how that relates to the big bang, but our consciousness seems to reflect this…..most of us are just not aware of it.

    Yo that’s enough from me. 🙂

  13. A super lol sounding off here, Ed bud! 🙂

    If we already have what we need, then why do we want less
    of the same? We are conscious of the missing pieces to our
    puzzle. New information expands what we already have in
    mind. We are both the ‘haves’ and the ‘have-knots’. So, maybe
    it is not about learning. Maybe it’s simply about re-membering.

    Once we get it all together, we are commanded to teach it,
    share it, love it, and behold it. “I died, I was born again. I am
    now enlightened. Now what?” The student asks.

    Chop wood, carry water – marvelous activity. 🙂

  14. 🙂 Hi, Bonnie!

    We’re not splitting hairs, we’re splitting Adams.

    Here is where I am. It’s like…why am I on a need-to-know basis?
    Why did I take a right turn at the crossroads? Did I myself choose?
    Part of this new journey is due to my dear friend Cheryl’s
    talents and gifts. She has brought the intelligence that I once
    kept at arm’s length, front-and-center. In my face, so to speak.
    And then I ran into John, obsfo, which seemed to be no accident.
    John is putting me to the test, and my scores are knot note worthy.

    For many years I denied the existence of The Dark Side.
    I’m getting to know my enemy, and He’s a tough one to love.
    Not that I believe in the devil…I mean, I’ve not experienced
    anything horrid, not seen a ghost. I still have my doubts,
    and I still have a difficult time believing – in The Bible
    as being inerrant and literally – down to the letter – perfect;
    true; infallible. There’s some really weird stuff in there.
    The kind of stuff that doesn’t happen anymore, if it ever did.

    Miracles? For God’s sake! This world needs one. Faith doesn’t sell.
    We need proofs if we wish to influence others.
    That’s the thing. I’m looking at preaching again. Gee whiz.
    I’m not quitting my job. March 28 is my 35th anniversary there!
    Doing it here will have to suffice. Thus sayeth the Lord. 😉

    Maybe that helps you understand me a little better.
    Luvz, Hugz & Peazza, Keith

  15. I guess the tree has all that it needs in the heart of a living bud, though ’tis differently covered by a nut-case 😉

    Some say, ‘Let go and let God.’ Who am I to stand in His Way? Best keep on moving and being moved with all of our brothers and sisters allowing the buds to unfold.

    “Does no man condemn you?”


    You’re right, Ed. I damn myself aplenty.
    And do my best to take it easy on others.
    “Time will tell” which buds we smoke.

  16. It is a question that has puzzled the minds of many down through the ages, and still maintains the same ‘spirit’ of enquiry among the commentators on your site.

    I had a quick read of the blog of one of your commentator’s – Christopher’s – he is also more than a little interested in this question.

    Does the Bible have the answer? I often have the feeling that we are only told as much as we need to know. We are no doubt created ‘a little lower than the angels’ for good reason?

    Although the Bible is our reference book, its contents are a very condensed version of events from the time God re-created the surface of the earth in Gen.1:2. We have talked about that before so will not labour the point now.
    I call the Bible a reference book, because that is exactly what it is. I doubt that it was meant to be read as a normal novel from beginning to end. It may well be an interesting historical read, but the end result will give little new knowledge to the reader. Many answers are given ‘here a little and there a little’. Seek and ye shall find in other words. However, after saying that the answer to this question is more than a little elusive.

    Was it the spiritual (human) that was created in Gen.1 and the carnal (mortal) human that was created in Gen.2. These two were then combined when the ‘breath of life’ was blown into the nostrils and man BECAME a living soul – he was not given a soul, he is a soul – ‘nephesh’ – all living breathing life forms are living souls. However, only mankind would appear to have a human spirit.

    Were mankind and all the other creations that were to be placed on the earth, that are named in Gen.1, actually placed on the earth at that time? In Gen.2:5 it is revealed – ‘And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground’.

    Was it the ‘spiritual’(human) man that was created in Gen.1? The mortal physical man (soul) would not appear to have been made (human spirit given a temporary physical home) until Gen.2:7

    How long was the period of time between Gen.2:5 and Gen.2:6?

    If we, and all the other named creations were not initially created on this planet – then where?
    Perhaps a clue is given in Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    The heaven mentioned in the above verse is the translation of the Hebrew word ‘shamayim’,
    that refers to the visible heavens – physical universe. The being who is referred to in this verse is of course Lucifer, who is actually planning to topple his Creator from His (God’s) throne – wherever that may be – clearly Lucifer knew.

    This being would appear to be aiming for an actual physical place in the Universe.

    ‘Mount of the Congregation’ – Hebrew – ‘har’ (hill) of ‘mow`ed’ (appointed place, appointed time)

    ‘In the sides’ – Hebrew – yĕrekah (flank, side, extreme parts, recesses)

    ‘Of the North’ – Hebrew – tsaphown (literally north or northward)
    the Hebrew word ‘tsaphown’ is derived from the root word ‘tsaphan’, meaning to hide, treasure, treasure or store up, SECRET PLACES.

    That is a purely speculative approach on my part and only used to perhaps open up other trains of thought. Although the Throne of God may be located in the sides of the North it does not necessarily mean that the life forms created to live on this planet were created there.

    Wow, am I way out on a very weak limb of your tree? This must be a good example of thinking outside of the box or what.

    Eccl.3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

    However, we appear to go back to the original form on physical death, leaving the old (hopefully) mortal coil behind.

    We could discuss a lot more on this topic, but I do not want to damage the thread of your original posting.




    “Further, this passage goes on to illustrate the fact that so many pious and righteous beings, many of whom were incredibly famous throughout history, such as Adam, the first man, were literally condemned to Hell, and were waiting for redemption and/or mercy to be shown from God. This passage represents the type of people who were quite literally trapped in Hell…”

    “And Hades took Satan and said to him, ‘O Beelzebub, heir of fire and torment, enemy of the saints, through what necessity did you contrive that the King of Glory should be crucified, so that he should come here and strip us naked? Turn and see that not one dead man is left in me, but all that you gained through the tree of knowledge you have lost through the tree of the cross.

    This is a wonderful and far-out fairy tale
    with an ending you don’t want to miss.
    (Lvcifer recently subscribed to my blog.)

  18. Howdy, John!

    Your comment up there made me think of Star Trek’s Genesis Project. Plus, I used to listen to a local radio show every Saturday morning called “Exploring Unexplained Phenomena”, which specialized in UFO sightings and experiences, but also got into ghost stories, psychic activities, and other such anomalies.

    That the earth was seeded by beings from another planet is an old, old story which has repeatedly been told, and argued about, all throughout our relatively short history as conscious beings living on a watery planet in the heavens. And we have never known for sure which way is up. From what I’ve heard and read, Sirius is most famous for producing these otherworldly beings. 3 old men in white robes with long grey beards have appeared to folks the whole world over. Who knows, eh? There are plenty of proofs out there, and here, on Planet Earth, to make one pause, stop and wonder, wtf?

    We could be nothing other than a high-tech experiment of some way-way older intelligent life forms. But, gee! We now know how damn unique we are, and how perfectly setup and super-fine tuned this thing is that we call Life. Should we expect our ‘parents’ to show up some day and set things aright? If that’s how it all came ‘down’, then yes. We should expect it…again. It’s already happened, perhaps. Would we know? Is The Bible ‘s Revelations where we got all these stories in the first place? Probably not, but it’s popularity, for sure, has kept it alive and thriving in many secret, and more not-so-secret places. Much is kept hidden from us by the powers that be. Going public would certainly upset the equilibrium that keeps the haves having, and the have-knots not halving what the gods would have us to share. Believe it, or knot.

    I’ll give to you my thanks for all the time and effort you expended in producing the above mentioned comment. Cheeerz to you, dude!

    At peace with the stone, and ready to rock, I am!
    Uncle Tree, rolling away into the sunset… 🙂

  19. I am well aware of the many crazy theories that abound in the ether, and it was not my intention to add another one to them. The quoted verse came to mind after I started writing and it was perhaps a subconscious (what is that?) thought that the spiritual is not always easily translated into the physical – but that is what we mortals often attempt to do, and just as often come up with the wrong answer perhaps.

    Then again we can listen to the spirits – but which ones – all, or just those that happen to give revelations that concur with the deviousness of our own human spirit?

    The ether is filled with those looking for answers and also with those who appear more than willing to supply those answers – Confusion in other words.

    We should not, perhaps, be so quick to entertain ourselves with the vanity of our own writings. Use of language shows this spirit very clearly. James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; [it is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

    In the words of the Preacher:

    Eccl.1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all [things] that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. 14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all [is] vanity and vexation of spirit. 15 [That which is] crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered.

    17 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

    James 3:13 Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.

    Perhaps we should all (include myself here) re-think what it is we are attempting to accomplish in our writings?

  20. My intentions for writing have changed over the course of the last 10 years or so. I started with notebook and pen, and then, about 6 years ago, I bought our first computer. Behind the curve there, huh? For the most part, and from the start, I have maintained the inclination to leave something valuable behind for the sake of my children, and for the love of my children’s children’s children.

    I still see that as reason enough to wail away, that they might look back someday in wonder of just what kind of thoughts came out of the roots of their dear and (someday) dearly departed favorite Uncle Tree. Let them know that I wasn’t afraid to voice my opinions, and neither did I lack courage in the art of spinning words around in my head in an effort to make sensible the biggest universal questions that a tree like me can bring to fruition. 🙂

    All vanity? It’s not like we invented our attributes, and it’s not like we can evolve new ones by trying. The one evolutionary fact that doesn’t at all seem far-fetched to me is this: Individual human beings do not evolve, species do. We are asked to do our best, with all our might, with whatever we endeavor to do. So that is what I attempt to do most every time I sit down here with the square purpose of sticking my crooked vain purpose into a round hole.

    Uncle Vanitree will finish up by quoting himself. Have a good day, John! The lines of communication will remain open for God’s sake.


    For the sake of the artist I feel without touching
    For your sake I lay down my arms,
    and trample the fields unabashed
    For the sake of forgiveness I seek and find peace
    For the sake of love I forgive the incident immediately
    For the sake of intention I stumble aimlessly,
    and grope for the words that lift me up,
    hoping that in the process I can lighten your burden.

  21. Uncle Tree is naked, so what’s the big deal? 🙂

    Instincts come to us before we achieve consciousness of ourselves.
    Instincts are inborn, self-awareness is of an emerging quality.
    Adam and Eve were not conscious of themselves at first.
    That’s what the author of Genesis was referring to, in my opinion.
    They didn’t know anything until they received the blessings
    of knowledge literally held in the fruit – the apple was
    an entheogenic substance, and it raised the consciousness of Eve,
    and then Adam, from the muck and mire of the young Earth,
    and allowed it to flower – the first of its kind.

  22. I’m only looking at things through the lens of the Bible. If we add into it such an idea as that last one of yours, then we have only the geneology to go by and then we have to consider a 10,000 year old earth.

    Help me here. Why does an intelligent person like yourself wish to mix science with theology? Doing so makes a mockery of both.

  23. Revealed and Rational exegesis – Thank you for defining those for me over at your site, Christopher! You may believe I only fall on the rational side of the equation, but since I know, because of my own experiences, that divine revelations occur today as well as in years past, then I can say – I believe The Bible is a mixture of both.

    I believe God uses divine reason sometimes, as well as He distributes divine logic to His children once in awhile. But He also has a dark side. That’s why we say, “Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom”. That’s why we ask Him in The Lord’s Prayer, that He not lead us into temptation, nor deliver us unto the hands of evil doers. I know how and when The Bible was put together. I don’t know why they left out particular books from the same age pertaining to the same story, but the fact is – they did. Men decided, as a large group (a congress), so I’m sure there was no general consensus, even though there may have been a book or two voted in unanimously.

    If you didn’t believe in mixing science (including mathematics) with religion, you wouldn’t be using numbers like 10,000 to describe the age of the earth. That job belongs to the geologists, as the age of The Universe belongs to cosmologists. As far as spirituality goes, the age of The Universe matters not. The year of the Second Coming matters not. Only today matters to a man of the Spirit, or to a man of God. Right? No worries in that regard.

    The Age Of Faith is slowly coming to an end, or so it seems to me. Church-goers are dwindling in number, whilst atheists groups continue to add members.

    Jung wished to save Christianity by proving It’s vital existence
    as a living myth, with a Savior for Mankind who makes History today.
    It is not only an age-old story, it’s a Truth that He walks amongst
    us today. Jesus Christ is pertinent today! He stands for The Truth,
    whether it comes from scientists, or artists, or any other vocation.

    The Earth is not flat, no matter how much we wish it were.

  24. John 1– Yeshua (Jesus Christ), the living Word (Will) of the Lord was before Adam, for He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him and for Him, for without Him was nothing created that was made (things that are seen that were made from things that are unseen). And we know that the Lord is Spirit and without measure, ‘for does He not fill Heaven (the spirit realm) and Earth (the realm that is seen).
    ❗ Important to also realize- Our Father intended us to ‘eat’ of Life, but we chose self-reliance through provided knowledge of lawfulness instead. I am certain this choice occurred in the spirit before Earth was even set, for we were created from the inside out. Be forever blessed

  25. “…we were created from the inside out.
    That’s an interesting statement, Jonathan. Do you mean –
    from within (psyche) to without (objective world)?
    God dreamed us up before He made us in His image?
    That is how I see it. That we chose to be materialized
    and that was the first sin – that’s a new one on me. Hmm…

    Thank you for chiming in! And nice to meet you! 🙂 UT

  26. Adam’s third and only begotten son, Sheth, was after Adam’s likeness and image, and was the Second Adam. He walked with his Father Adam for 800 years, and he was the dearly beloved son of his Father. Adam did judge all three of His sons offerings. Christ came in the name of Joshua/Jesus and gave himself for his offering. Guess what our Father Adam gave as His offering? How much love did he have for the world of His children?

  27. All that IS is a has-been in the NOW that promises a brighter future, whilst ever growing dimmer in the Chaos of Perfection. Temporal at Its best – reigns forevermore. Forevermore, for evermore, forever…1

  28. 35,000 years ago – a fearless man learned how to play with fire. Let’s call him ADAM. He says, “Fire is good!” Yah, especially after he named the dark EVE ning. The next morning he woke up with a WOODY. Yes?

  29. From my background in Psychotherapy, I have to say that I relate to these ancient myths as symbolic stories that explain our awakening from unconsciousness ~ the moment when the soul incarnated into physical form, and mankind had memory, knew yearning and loss. I wrote about it in my book: The Coming Of The Feminine Christ. Love the blog, Keith and love your thirst for answers.

  30. Love your help and your camaraderie, Niamh.
    I’m still digging your book – second time through.
    This summer has been hectic at times – many trials.
    I love learning – my girlfriend is psychically gifted.
    Reality, as is, defies definition at this point.

    Life is a good teacher!
    You’re a good teacher!
    You have me stuck on
    on that old hag’s finger.
    But Mi’lady Cheryl Ann
    has hands and a heart,
    and love is f’in crazeee!

    Peace and luvz, Keith

  31. Oh I’ve stumbled on an old post here, but it’s fascinating! I’m too muddy-headed to give a cogent reply, sorry, but I really enjoyed finding a conversation about things one seldom comes across in RL. I’d consider myself a panentheist at this time, though I’ll never say “Ive made up my mind”, because I’m open to learning. Have you ever read The Silmarillion? This reminds me somehow of the incredible creation account at the beginning of it – since we’re talking symbols, Tolkein’s story captured the pure magic you could imagine in the creation of a world. I think what you’ve written brings that to mind because of the free (from convention) imagining of God’s mind and thinking on creating a world, which would be quite something!!

  32. Actually, I’d qualify what I said about panentheism, it sounds too vascillating. I am open to new learning, but panentheism is central to what I believe is true.

  33. Nice to meet you, Chaos Girl! 🙂 I had to Google RL, LoL.
    Anymore, it’s not often we run into “readers” who’ll take the
    Time to read any post with more than 50 words, so Thank you for that!

    I have not read The Silmarillion. I Googled that also. Tolkein’s
    Genesis, so to speak. I probably would enjoy it – having read
    The Lord Of The Rings trilogy back in High School. Oddly enough,
    I’m currently studying a book named “Genesis” by Eugene Whitworth.

    Concerning pantheism, I’ll bring up the latest BIG scientific news:
    The Bang’s aftershocks (The Eternal Hum – Aum) or background
    radiation was found to be exactly as predicted (math-wise).
    For my part, this perfectly proves Pan’s theism. Still,
    since we can’t get beyond ourselves, and because we
    do not know if RL sits in a finite or infinite universe, we
    can continue our mystical faith based on conjecture alone.

    “The Church” needs to face these facts just like we faced a round Earth;
    a planet that revolves around the Sun. Jesus stood for Truth,
    and I believe we must have faith in human Science. It’s the best we have.
    The Word condones our words, our logic, and our reasoning, imo.

  34. I read an article on the Bang aftershocks. Yes, the way I see it, the ‘God’ science, Dawkins, Hawkings, etc have a beef with is a religious God, the super-Zeus in the sky. But I can’t help thinking that they’re arguing with/against a straw man (or god) and that ‘God’ is more like the matrix of Everything, if you want to put it like that (and I do). Like they and everyone else can’t see the wood for the trees (sorry dude) – maybe like we’re looking at God’s big toe and thinking that is God.

    I loved the Silmarillion genesis story – it’s not like the book is more than (very wonderful) entertainment, but you know, I think there’s a lot to be said for any work which fires wonder and imagination, because why are those not as important as science? I’d say science without wonder and imagination is dead. It’s that boring old balance argument again isn’t it! Everything in tension.

    And I so agree about our attempts to understand being condoned, as you put it. Why on earth would we be created with logic, reasoning etc, and then be expected to shelve those in favour of blind faith? Not logical, or fair! As a recovering conservative, I really appreciate the intellectual freedom to question and explore, and watch other people do the same. I am enjoying your blog!

  35. I was born, but I was made an athiest. In the process of time the God of all Flesh took grace and poured it out on my humpty dumpty life. (there is a poem there) When this Almighty and Compassionate God did so He had a plan for my life to get to know Him. I have been in that journey now for 30 years of my 50 year existence. As I learn more of ‘Who this God is!’ I am always amazed how much I don’t know as much as I didn’t know and how much much more I can know. Through my humpty dumpty stage I can say God’s grace, His love was poured out and is the same measure poured on my life every day moment by moment. Your thought process I like it shows a very deep imagination much like my own. I as you have gathered love to write and am trying to break into that illusive world of accomplished writer. Some of it is posted. But thanks for the like and I enjoy what I read. Love the tree! Makes me think of Tolkien’s Treebeard.

  36. Hey, Joe! You crack me up. 😉 Shell-shock, maybe.
    Say, I’m from Sedalia, Mo! Nice to meet you!
    Glad you liked what you’ve seen. Peace, Uncle Tree

  37. You know, there’s a whole lot in here to discuss (like you didn’t know that, already 8^), but I’ll just make one tiny comment. You open with “In His image – His likeness – we look like Him – He must look like us.” Many people – mostly atheists – have a bone to pick with this, saying that it’s somehow hubris to say God looks like us, but that we “made” God in our own image.

    To which, I can only retort, if God made us…then why wouldn’t we look like him? There’s nothing inherently vain (in either sense of the word) to say God looks like us if he really does.

  38. Anthropomorphism is a big word, but the letters do spell it out.
    In the same vein, Uncle Tree’s god is Yggdrasil – The World Tree ▲
    Now, tell me. If the Big Bang (Pan) had a god, how would IT appear?

  39. This is true!

    When asked by God if they had eaten from the tree they were told not to eat from, Adam’s first words were “The woman you gave me” – shifting the blame to both Eve and God. Talk about chutzpah! ;^)

  40. That was an interesting wonder within your thoughts…
    I seem to be even more curious about “before” than I was a as kid…
    back in May I wrote a post on wondering where our memories came from….are we the bloodlines of the Angels that fell from Grace?

    my thoughts on the ever evolving Garden of Curiosity is always looking for different views one paints with words… I enjoyed yours very much….I’ll read again because I know I will see something else I missed the first time or I will think of it some other way….

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us….
    Take Care…You Matter…

  41. Nice to meet you, maryrose! 🙂 Thank you for the visit, the LIKES,
    and for taking the time to read this — at least once.
    I don’t write “long” posts anymore. People have so little time.

    You might like “Genesis”, the book I mention in the above comments.

    I believe in the Big Bang theory, so I wood interpret and conclude —
    we all “fell”, and Grace came along for the ride. 😉
    We all matter in this game of “now you’re eternal, now you knot”.

    Peace, luvz, and hugz! Uncle Tree

  42. Thank you truly, Caroline. 🙂 I humbly and graciously accept
    your supremely kind compliments, even when they’re over the top.
    If I made you think and ponder, then I shall no longer wander.
    Ya know, I do really dig The Ancient Of Days up above.
    Blake was quite the artist — very multi-talented, much like yourself.

    Hugz and smooches backatcha, sweet P. ❤ Luvz, UT

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